As noted above, this interview was recorded in 2001. In July, 2001, Gustavo withdrew from Cosmotango; at which point Fabián considered whether he should continue alone, or call a halt. He was persuaded to continue. The 2002 Cosmotango event in Buenos Aires was an unqualified success (being the 3rd annual). A summer Festival will be held this year for the first time.
Your intrepid interviewer and Fabián did sit down again this year to talk. And talk. And talk. We're sorry, but we didn't manage to do a new interview ... but we will be back with a new piece in this space before too long!
Here, then, is the original interview that has been widely reprinted since it's publication here:
Keith:
When I see you dance, like in last night's Tango Masters showcase here in Miami, I feel I'm witnessing something IMPORTANT. Why do I get that feeling? What am I seeing?
Fabián: That I don't know, really. But, I know - what you must see different; or what looks different to your eyes and what you can catch looks different - however, you have to have some training to catch that. Most of the people don't. The reality is that (we're not going to use these words, but) most of the people are used to bull. Where, the more tricks you perform, the better dancer that you are. And that's wrong.
Last night we were watching this competition, and I was just telling Carolina how difficult it is to put together something that has some meaning; that is not a bunch of steps just (claps) put like that. And that's what it looked like. Most of the people did not know how to dance. And the ones that knew how to dance, lost. And that's a problem. I knew, everybody knew, the kids from Miami were going to win. But you have Victor (Crichton) and I placed him second ... because for me he was the one who danced the best. But nobody else did ... not even the teachers. They want flash and trash, you know?
The value of being a good dancer, the value of putting everything together, of being an articulate dancer, that can converse ... it's important and not too many people realize that.
Keith: So, we'll come back to WHAT it is you are doing, but this brings up an interesting point: is what you're teaching for somebody brand new to Tango? Or should they already know a lot of things first?
Fabián: Not at all. I think that, for the first time ... and this might sound pretentious but I don't mean it that way ... I really believe that for the first time we found a structure - something that is fundamental for every type of Tango that you will do. That is the basic idea of the motion, of what your choices are; and that's good for any type of Tango you want to dance.
In reality, every dancer uses what we discovered. We say that because nobody told us these things. But it was there since day number one. And that's why people from all different sorts or styles of Tango they could have danced together before. But, you go to a class and nobody tells you what it is. It's one of those things where you can not put your finger on it, but you've been trying to do it for so long.
Unfortunately, we haven't done any - if you want to call it "scientific" study of this where, at the end, you have a book or a video. Because, we should start all this process by teaching the teachers what it is that we're talking about. Because most of the teachers don't know what we're talking about. This is the problem.
I believe that if you write a book, sooner or later the teachers are going to buy it and when they are in their homes, where nobody can see, they'll read the book and they'll understand what we're talking about. Because they won't come to our classes. And they keep teaching the same bull 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 for years and years - and it's still that way. You have people talking to you about "Number 5," - there is no number 5! There is no number 2, there is no number 7 ... I mean, that's a structure that is old, that doesn't have anything to do with anything. The basic step is not the basic step ... it's been proven to us that it is not that way. I mean, none of the teachers use it anymore in their own dancing. But when they go to teach: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. And that's - that's a problem. Because the teaching cast, the teaching people are not instructing well. We are still saying too many different things to students.
For instance, if you want people to lean forward, you want ... that's not the structure of the dance. We have not understood yet that there is a technique of the dance ... and that it is not any more something that you learn intuitively; that you have to work on it and there are things that you must know. And unfortunately most of the teachers don't know anything about this. And that's the truth.
And then teachers come to you and say, "What's the pizza step?" They think there is another step that's called the pizza step because there is one that is the sandwich step. And because we talk about slices of pizza to be graphic, you know, about triangles etc. I mean, teachers Ç their main responsibility is to be informed - at least. Informed of what's going on. They don't know. They heard from some student, who can't understand what you're talking about, "Oh, they taught the pizza step today." So, they want to know what the pizza step looks like because everybody's talking about it. I mean, things like that, that to me are ... they drive me nuts.
Keith: That brings up two questions in my mind. Here's the second one first: you look beautiful when you and Carolina dance Ç but she's a real dancer (Fabian: That's correct.) So, many people must ask you: can I just do this with anybody who doesn't have good balance, good posture, they're brand new ... 'cause you do a lot of turns, things like that which require technique?
Fabián: Well, first let's talk about more advanced dancing. I think that dancing, uh, dancing at this point is becoming like, how do you say in English, we call it "alta competencia" which is high competitive sports. Like, today you cannot talk about how good was a runner 40 years ago. They didn't exist 40 years ago like now. Today, it's different. It's not just natural talent. And I think Tango, or dances are becoming that way. In ballroom, you already see it Ç these people are athletes.
In Tango, in ballet, you see that. In Tango, we're coming in to the idea of realizing that this is not for everybody. To be good, you have to have a lot of things lined up together for you. It's not just the time, it's not just the balance - it's a combination of things. I mean, this is a complex dance. My feeling was always that it can't hurt that you are able to understand the dance. So, why is there all this problem from people about being rational about the dance - when in reality in any type of dance you do, there is a technique. In ballet, in ballroom, there is a technique. In Tango, there is nothing - just what the teacher tells you at this moment, at that's it. And all of them are telling you different things. So, it's left to the student to realize what thing is good and what thing is wrong. And the student is not there for that. I mean, that's why he's a student. It shouldn't be up to the student to realize that this is good about him, that's bad about her ... we should give them more elements that we are not giving.
Keith: Two nights ago I saw you dance with a woman who lives in Miami who is not a "dancer," and it looked beautiful. She is like the typical person who wants to dance Tango; isn't going to do great turns and jumps and all that ...
Fabián: Correct. For a "normal" person, if you can walk you should be able to dance. That's it. If you understand that there isn't any other weird things in between. What we put the accent on is on the walk and the way of moving.
Now, people - because they've been taught that way - before they move they do too many things. Instead of relaxing and just let the movement take you; and then correcting a few things here and there; they think too much ... start acquiring weird postures; ideas with their feet; you know, where they have to look ... things which the Tango doesn't go through. I mean, a lot of people ask me in classes, "How much weight do I have to put on this foot, how many pounds?" Or, "What kind of an angle do I need here?" The dance does not go through those paths. And if you start thinking like that, the last thing you can do is walk ... which is what you want.
But at some point, you have to give them something that they can grab - some of those things you can put your fingers on. So you have to tell them, "Do this, and put your arm like so;" things that they can chew on. And that's why, for too many students, after years and years of teaching, people come to realize that we are good teachers. But for years, they couldn't understand what we were saying; because they are used to being told, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, and that's a concept that they can believe. We now tell them, no, the "basic step" doesn't exist, number 1 doesn't exist, number 8 doesn't exist - there are no numbers ... this is what you have: you have three steps to each side; you mix a bunch of combinations and this is all you can do.
And they resist, you know, they come to me and say, "This is number 4." And I say, "There is no number 4." And I know what they're talking about, but it's hard to get people to think in a different way; to think in a more accurate way.
Keith: So, when you take a beginner, what do they look like 6 months later? What have they learned? Can they dance with anybody?
Fabián: If they stick to what we do, yes.
Keith: Do you mind me asking - in a first one hour class, absolute beginner, what do you start with?
Fabián: Walk. I make people walk in front of each other. That's it. Walking and then, I explain to them how the cross happens if we get to that point. Because in one hour, it's too much information. But realistically speaking, what I would explain in the class is, which structure is Argentine Tango using. And then we go to the turn because for us dancers, it's all turns; and the basic step is nothing more than a turn to the left and the cross there happens because of that. I mean it's the same code; people have been using for years and they don't even realize it. But it's too much for a beginner. And unfortunately, they leave the class, they don't understand much what you were saying. Then the next class, the next teacher after you comes in and says, "OK Ç here is the basic step. Followers on one side, leaders on the other, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8." And that's the way they teach. That's "fine," that's the way we all learned. And it's proven that can work after years and years of practice. But you don't have to go that way.
And to begin with, having people apart - it's a mistake. It's a big mistake and teachers don't realize it yet, but what you have to teach people is to walk with another person in front, not to walk by themselves - they already know that. I don't see why they have to learn something by themselves. It's like, you want to learn to play piano and I give you a trumpet. It doesn't help you. It might not hurt you, but it's a different learning process. It doesn't get you faster to be a good pianist to learn trumpet at the same time. Most likely it's going to slow you down. Things that you do by yourself are out of the question. They don't work.
Now, try to prove this with somebody, I mean with teachers. No, the technique classes are very important. You have to teach the answers to stand ... where? Boleos - do boleos by themselves. This is crazy. The boleo is generated by the energy of the other person. Now, you're going to learn how to do a boleo with the bar, that doesn't have energy? So, what you're learning is to be independent ... which is exactly what we don't want.
The form is the least important thing. First you learn to follow, how to feel; then you learn the form of the dance. It doesn't go the other way around. There is no gain in going into the form of what you're going to do next if you haven't done it before. If you don't know how a boleo should feel, if you don't know what lead are you expecting, I mean ... this idea of telling you for two hours and a half how your feet are supposed to look while you're performing a boleo that somebody supposedly is going to lead ... no.
Fabián & Carolina
