Joe: When did you first begin to dance tango?
Eduardo: Well... Being as I am, older than Gloria, I started dancing tango at the
age of thirteen, in the decade of the 40s. And... after I began dancing
tango (it was the first thing I did dance wise) I fell in love with dancing
and I began to study other dances. And when I started taking classes,
that's when I met Gloria, not in a personal way, but because we were both
studying with the same teachers.
J: What kinds of other dances?
E: Many dances. Modern, Spanish dances, folklore, tap, all the dances of
that time.
J: And you were both teenagers?
E: I was thirteen... Gloria hadn't been born yet (laughter). I started at
age thirteen. When I was sixteen or seventeen...
Gloria: I was seven.
E: ...we went to the same teachers of different dances. I was also doing
tango on the side but she was too little to do tango. Later, when she was
thirteen years old, we began to do a little bit of tango. And at age
fourteen, when she was fourteen, we were already dancing with (the
orchestra of) Francisco Canaro.
G: We were already professionals.
J: And you were only fourteen?
G: That's right.
E: And when Gloria was fifteen, and I was twenty-four going on twenty-five,
we went to Japan with the orchestra of Francisco Canaro. Right... a trip in
that epoch that was almost like going to the moon today.
G: In the year 1961.
E: I said farewell to my family because I didn't know if I would come back
(laughter)...
G: From Argentina to Japan...
E: ... a complete turn around the world, complete. In that epoch... today,
it is very common, but in those days it was very difficult.
J: Did you both feel that tango was special to you?
E: Yes, the tango was always with us... in the neighborhood where we were
born (because we were neighbors and we've known each other all our
life).... the neighborhood in which we were born, was tango, tango, tango.
Right, it was like being born in the tango itself. The neighborhood of
Pompeya. For example, her (Gloria's) father danced tango, our brothers and
our friends danced tango. Everything was tango, tango.
J: But not everyone becomes a tango dancer for his or her career.
E: Oh, no, no, that's a miracle. Right, and much less in that epoch. It (a
career) did not exist. Well, it just happened that in the decade of the
50s, television was introduced in Argentina. And we were some youngsters
who could dance tango. We had studied other dances. We had knowledge of the
space. We had good teachers, and then the television made popular figures
out of us because we worked in the most famous programs of Argentine
television. Also, we were part of the first color television program
broadcast in the world. It was an experimental program in color, in 1961.
It (color TV) didn't exist anywhere in the world. In Japan, it was only
experimental. They produced a program with the opera Carmen, another one
about a cancer lung operation, and the show of Francisco Canaro. And,
there, we were. We were artists of the television era.
G: In that epoch there were not young couples....
E: No, neither young nor old...
G: ... that danced on television having experience in other dances. That's
almost like a miracle.
E: Later we were actors too. We worked as actors on television. We always
worked like that. We worked in the most important programs of television.
We danced with the majority of orchestras... twenty famous orchestras... we
danced with the twenty most famous orchestras... with Troilo, with
Pugliese, with Canaro, with Mariano Mores, with Sassone, with Jose Basso,
with De Angelis, with Calo... except with Di Sarli, because Di Sarli, in
that epoch got ill, and he later died. Otherwise we would have. Now,
Laurenz had recordings from an earlier period. We danced with Laurenz later
when he formed the original Quinteto Real, the old one, because now there
is a new one. In the first one there was Francini, there was Laurenz, there
was Salgan on piano... Right.
J: When you say it was a miracle does that mean that you became performers
by accident, or was it something you wanted to do?
E: No, because there were no professionals of that (tango dance). One has
to think that a tango couple that is dancing on one dance floor... how many
years had to pass for them to become famous? We started with television. We
were on two programs and the whole world knew us.
G: In all the homes there was only one channel to watch.... In all the
homes they watched that channel....
E: It was a miracle. It was the right moment at the right place....
G: ... and they'd call us all the time from all the programs, which in
those days there were many...
E: in that epoch, we were on a program called "Yo te canto Buenos Aires" (I
Sing to You Buenos Aires). We were the choreographers. We had a ballet in
the program....
G: ...tango ballet.
E: Pugliese worked on it.... First, Catulo Castillo wrote the script. The
producer was Julio Jorge Nelson, the famous.... And then, they had Troilo,
they had Pugliese, they had Di Angelis, they had Jose Basso... all the
orchestras, D'Arienzo.... We were dancing with Canaro in the theater, and
each week with a different orchestra in the TV program. And we were the
choreographers. We did everything. We moved the singers around, the
dancers, everything. We brought Piazzolla so he could work. Piazzolla
worked with our ballet! All the artists, the most famous of tango.... And
this program was visited by the most famous personalities of Argentina.
From Borges to Castellini, painters, writers, all appeared on the show.
Later we were also the choreographers of another show produced by Vergara
Neuman where also the biggest artists and the biggest names were guests,
and we were the choreographers.
We also did a program that lasted twenty-five years. It was called "Grandes
valores del tango" (The Great Talents of Tango). And the greatest talents
of tango passed through it. The tango ballet was ours.
It means that from 1960 until these days, we had done many television
programs....
G: In Buenos Aires.
E: In Buenos Aires, and the whole world. We are teachers of the whole
world. We worked here in the United States, before "Tango Argentino", from
1967. We had our own shows. We traveled with our own shows through the
Soviet Union, Japan, Mexico, in all the Latin American countries. Later, it
was a miracle that we were part of the show "Tango Argentino". Always the
most successful shows are miraculous.
J: You were also in the show "Forever Tango", correct?
E: We are the choreographers.
G: Right.
E: We made Forever Tango. That was a show of our own. I have the (theater)
programs where it shows we are. We did it in the year 1990, and we reprised
it in the year 1994 for the "Mundial" (colloquial for World Cup). In Los
Angeles. At the Wilshire Theater. And later, it went to San Francisco.
There, in San Francisco, we won, with Forever Tango... we made the final
three (nominations) for the best show. This was determined by the
journalists of the Bay Area. We made the "terna" (an expression that
describes a group of three things) with other shows. And we won the first
prize as the best 1994 show in the San Francisco Bay Area. It was for 1994
but they gave us the award in 1995.
J: With all of the many productions that you have been a part of, is there
one that was a turning point for you or special favorite?
E: I think that we have to have a lot of respect for Tango Argentino,
because it is the one that revolutionized the dance in the entire world.
Because of that show we are here now. After Tango Argentino, the whole
world became interested in the dance of tango. We were on, after Tango
Argentino, I think, seven or eight shows; four of them were ours, as
directors and producers... four were ours... they are good and there are
films about them going around the world. Perhaps, they received more
applause in some places than Tango Argentino. But we always have that
respect for Tango Argentino.
J: You are both known as experts of many different tango styles.
E: Yes. We are studious.
J: I am curious to know if there is a style that you prefer when you are
dancing for yourselves.
E: It depends for what purpose. We introduce a show.... and we study the
way to be able to build a balanced show.... and within this balance we have
the possibilities of working with different things. And one falls in love
with all those things. They are like children ("hijos") you give birth to.
Right, jobs that you like. We have good luck, perhaps.... We pick a theme,
and we work on it, we work on it, we make it deeper, and we make of it a
worldwide success. And that, we never touch it again. We leave it like
that. That one is that way. And it remains that way. We have a theme that
we danced with Francisco Canaro in 1961, and we still dance it! It is like
a painting. It is that way and it can't be touched. It is that way. And
that way it happened in Tango Argentino. We danced Milongueando en el
cuarenta... and that was a theme that now is popular worldwide. And the
people always talk to us about that theme.
There is... in the last shows that we did... they are our shows... we made
two or three creations, special creations for those shows. That's like a
seal. It's not just the dancing... It's to act it out, to dress it, to
introduce something before it so it can be special... There are many things
that make something to have an impact.
The proper style of tango is born from the dance... and one can raise to
any height... to the most modern place... respecting the root. It's like a
tree... when one cuts it... what's on top has no value. It's going to dry
up. For what's above to have any value, it has to be born from below. And
like that, that is the real tango... It has to have the roots. Otherwise,
it's another thing. It may be good, or regular, but it's not the tango.
To be tango, it needs to have...
G: ... to respect...
E: ... to respect the roots.
G: ...the roots.
G: One must respect the roots of tango.
E: Then, there are temporary successes.... fashions that go out of style.
Five months later and nobody remembers them anymore. But when the thing has
roots, it stays, it lasts.
J: What advice would you give to developing dancers, such as to a person
you teach at workshops like these, on how to find the roots of tango?
E: Well, he arrives to the roots when he falls in love.... First, it is
like, shall we say, like a tourist within the tango... he goes around, and
asks one thing, he likes something else. But (the passage of) time makes
the person capable of distinguishing what thing is the root. Which it is
that's useful to him. And, he is going to be satisfied only when he can
assert himself his personality. That's going to be the tango within him.
Right... else, it is like a person that's going around, and today he
changes one thing, and tomorrow he dances in a different way, and the day
after.... Sure, he is investigating. Those are stages, but when is he going
to rendezvous with the tango? It's when he will be able to put inside the
tango his own personality.
And it is logical that for that, there will be teachers who will help him.
And he is going to be able to recognize them... right, because when someone
begins, somehow he can be dazzled by things that are external.... but the
things of the tango are internal (points to his chest). When he can receive
those things from the inside -- not just him, anybody who can receive the
things that are inside -- he is going to run into the tango.
The external, the visual, the athletic are things that can trap you
(atrapar). But that is not... that is not the tango. That's what I believe
(points to himself and laughs). I also went through those stages. Everybody
passes through those stages.
J: That makes me feel better. (Laughter.) In this country at least, we
sometimes make distinctions between club/confiteria/milonguero style and
the style of salon. I don't know if these are valid distinctions, but I
wondered if you could say something about the place of "club style" in
tango dancing.
E: The tango is only one. It accommodates itself to every place and every
epoch. The tango was taking shape, it was growing, it was changing from
location to location. For instance, when it first reached the outskirts of
the city, it was danced in a certain way. In the clubs they danced it in a
different way. In the city salons it was forbidden to dance the way they
danced it in other places. For me, the salon style is an, elegant, walked
style, done on the floor, without doing figures. Everything on the floor.
That's the salon style. That's how they called that style in the
competitions in the old days.
Then, there is the canyengue style, which belongs to a much earlier
primitive time. Then you have the tango cruzado, which is from 1935 to the
1940s. Then there is the tango fantasia, which people don't understand very
well. Tango fantasia is from the floor. It is not from the stage. The only
thing that was allowed was the separation of the man and the woman to do
some figures separated, but tango figures of course. This was born in the
practicas among the men. The exhibitions were done by the guys. It was not
with women. Later with time, the woman was incorporated, but when this
style was born it was done among men. Let's say that they were the most
advanced dancers of a practica.
J: What years are we talking about?
E: In the 40s. We are always talking about the 40s and the 50s. In the 40s
appeared a style with boleos and ganchos. Like a novelty. It was an opening
to a tendency of wanting to attract attention. And, later, in the 50s, is
when they began to dance closer, with the faces looking in the opposite
direction. A more intimate dance, more for the couple, and with some of the
figures reminiscent of the primitive tango. With contratiempos (double
stepping). Playing with time and countertime. That is more from the old,
primitive tango and the orchestras started to play rhythmically. First,
Juan D'Arienzo. We could say that Juan D'Arienzo was in those days what
Tango Argentino was later for these days. Juan D'Arienzo's was the
orchestra that got the whole country dancing.
J: And that was in the 50s?
E: Thirty five. From 1935. Before then the orchestras were "heavy," slow.
They still had the tango, that was somewhat forbidden, danced in the
salons. When the tango entered in the society, not the high society but the
middle class, it was forbidden to do strange figures. They were other
times. But, at the same time, in the outskirts of the town, they danced
with everything. That's why I say, that the tango is according to where
they put it.
In the 20s, when the tango went to Europe, they danced it before the Pope.
I can imagine what it was like (laughs). Canaro wrote a tango called "Ave
Maria". I imagine how the woman, who danced it, was dressed. Like a nun...
(Laughter.) Meanwhile, in Buenos Aires they were dancing another tango
(gesturing with arms and upper body to illustrate the movements).
It means that the tango is only one, and it presents itself according to
the needs... right?
Nobody is the owner of the tango. The maximum thing one can do for the
tango, is to love it. When one believes that he is the owner of the tango,
he is very lost. (Laughing with an "I know what I'm talking about" smile.)
Ok, ok, each one dances... that's why in life we have moments... we have
moments because you like a tango.... Because one day you like La
cumparsita, and you say "There is no better tango than La cumparsita, and I
kill myself with it...." And two months later the tango you like is another
one. That is how you feel. Right.... it is a state of the soul.
That's why if you ask me what is the best orchestra, I can't tell you
because it depends on the mood. If you ask what is the best tango we think
we dance: it is according to the way we feel. At that moment when we are
dancing it, that is the best one. But in a year, or one year before, it may
be another one.
continue
Eduardo y Gloria
